Curse

UndeadRoadkill · Oct 06, 2006, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two April Mornings

Its not necessarily show-off. Many players who have finished the whole of the PVE side of the games simpyl try to attain the established rarest of skins because that is what is left to do to be "complete."

Guild Wars has also been built around a certain effort. If you do really want that skin adn those stats, you have to work to get them. Whether through trading or farming. Most people do not do this, seeing as how rare and difficult it is to attain such items. Many call it a grind. Just because of this though, it doesn't mean that they shoudl be all of a sudden easily available to everyone.

Why? Why should we just accept that "that's the way it's gotta be?" As I said, I'd rather see more diversity. There is still plenty to do after completing all missions, you really haven't given a solid reason why some skins should be next to impossible to attain.

Clawdius_Talonious · Oct 06, 2006, 03:28 AM // 03:28

What I find hilarious is people say "some things should be difficult to obtain" and then they say "I don't want to grind for FoW armor"... So, you should be able to obtain your FOW armor off the sweat of someone elses virtual brow while you open a lucky chest and get it for the price of a key? It's interesting to think about how many people play this game that don't think sitting on top of millions of gold is the point of the PVE portion of the game. Maybe some of these hardcore farmers will start to dabble in the PVP portion of the game where most of the fun can be had.

I love how we have no clue how it's going to work and everyone is all upset. Everyone's assuming that focusing your salvage will assure you that piece of the weapon, or that you won't have some sort of balancing to it to make inscriptions valuable. Maybe you won't be able to always take the inscription down, but you'll always remove it from the weapon. Perhaps on weapons that are less than max damage the inscriptions will be much less likely to be removable. Maybe an inscription salvaging kit will cost 5k for 10 uses?

It's possible that Anet does know what they're doing - it's their game - and all these people up in arms about a change they don't yet understand fully has provided me with many hours of amusement.

Phoenix Ex · Oct 06, 2006, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Which is exactly what I said quite a few posts back, it would be much better if inscription turn the weapon into a brown weapon that act exactly like green with slight limitation (cannot get mods back out, customised, color change, an inscribed tag added to weapon name).

But seems like all the people would only be satisfied if they can get everything they want, screw the economy, and waste rich people's time and hope they go rot and die.

Two April Mornings · Oct 06, 2006, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

Why? Why should we just accept that "that's the way it's gotta be?" As I said, I'd rather see more diversity. There is still plenty to do after completing all missions, you really haven't given a solid reason why some skins should be next to impossible to attain.

I am not understanding your point of diversity. As for the "way its gotta be": I just think it should remain the way the game has defined it for the past year and a half. There is no need to rebel and add new things, especailly since greens. I wholeheartedl agree with the person above me, as i have made similar suggestions. Inscriptions themselves wouldn't be bad if implemented in such a fashion.

cellardweller · Oct 06, 2006, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco

lol you all saying this is good and will stop grind.

I want to see new players geting FOW armor without being able to sell a weapon for more then 20k. Thats what Id like to see.

Let me guess, after this, Minipet trading ftw ? [ AKA scammers ]

I've been quietly following this thread with intrest, but I have to take issue with this point. I wouldn't consider myself a rich player but I'm not exactly poor either. I have 8 toons that have finished both campaigns 6 with 60k armour and 2 with FoW armour.

Guess how many weapons I have sold since I started 15months ago- ZERO. Guess how many I have bought - ZERO. Every single gold drop has either been kept, sold to the merchant or given away (in fact back in the day when non-perfect golds were still desireable I used to hold nightly quiznights under the name Tony Barber in Ascalon D1 - fellow ausies will know who I mean lol)

Every single item any of my toons use has dropped for me personally, because this game is about having fun, not having to deal with the price gouging greed-monger that hang out in LA/Kaineng. Thats why I welcome inscriptions - it gives players who don't want to deal with traders or spaming WTB for hours on end an option for getting the items they want.

Yes I have my perfect fellblade, Yes I have a crystline, but after spending countless hours soloing FoW, I'm still using my spiked axe because that perfect chaos axe just won't drop. Its disheartening to people that actually play the game instead of trading to kill mob after mob never getting the items you want, and thats why I welcome incriptions. Finally choice has arrived!

Two April Mornings · Oct 06, 2006, 04:08 AM // 04:08

^How much have you farmed though?

UndeadRoadkill · Oct 06, 2006, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two April Mornings

I am not understanding your point of diversity.

Ok, I probably haven't illustrated it that well. Say we've got Skin A and Skin B. Skin A has its own style, but it drops very often. Skin B is more "rare." Everyone ignores Skin A because anyone can get it, and they all try to get Skin B just to prove how cool, or 1337 or whatever they are by having it. Then you have all kinds of silly things like people judging others by what they carry (Is he a good player for having that skin? Is that guy an ebayer for being able to afford it?) and a whole bunch of people with the same weapon skin.

If all skins are reasonably attainable (all those who equate this with merchants handing out crystallines for free make me laugh), then I think there will be no skins that get labelled as "teh uber-1337" or whatever. I think there will be less pressure to have such-and-such must-have skin, and people will begin to choose skins based more on their own personal taste, and we will see a larger variety of skins being used. Especially considering how many skins will be available in three campaigns-worth of content.

Mordakai · Oct 06, 2006, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Please explain this logic to me, cause I just don't get it:

Why on Earth would casual gamers, who we all agree this update is mostly for, care about FoW armor?!?

The idea that you have to sell weapons to get FoW armor is false, as illustrated above and by others. But to even use it as the sole reason not to have Inscriptions is disingenuous at best.

If people think FoW armor is "too hard" to get (although the people making such an argument have no qualms about making rare skins and mods hard to get!), start another thread about FoW armor.

This thread is about Inscriptions. It has nothing to do with 15k armor, FoW armor, titles, or anything BUT Inscriptions!

cellardweller · Oct 06, 2006, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two April Mornings

^How much have you farmed though?

I beleive I said "countless hours" ^^

sumrtym · Oct 06, 2006, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two April Mornings

^How much have you farmed though?

I'll take that one. I have over 3500 hours, and still don't have a +5 energy oni blade, a single 20/20 zodiac wand or staff, or a max stat zodiac shield. Granted, most that time is actually playing the game with friends (shockers). However, I've spent a fair amount of time farming. And yet still I can't get what I go after.

This after farming them to death. Same with a 15>50 low req chaos axe.

So, let's transititon from the "you have to have no life to get this weapon" to making it actually buildable WITHOUT ARBITRARY CRAP LIMITATIONS.

If the fact that now people can get what you got lucky spending 20 hours a day on GW farming for, well then tough skittles. I don't care.

I think what's really rubbing the majority of these people arguing against it wrong is 2 things: one, I won't be able to show how special and leet I am (whatever) with my uber weapon skin / stat, and two, it might force me to admit how much of my life I wasted on a stupid game accumulating mean nothing "wealth".

Mordakai · Oct 06, 2006, 04:42 AM // 04:42

I'd like to come to some sort of understanding of each other before this becomes an all out flamefest: (which would be too bad, I think some interesting points have been raised)

I believe, as purchasers of this fine game, we all deserve a good gaming experience. I think we'd all agree with that.

The argument, it appears to me, is what makes a "good gaming experience." On one side, you have people who just want to play the game. Ie, go through the missions, quests, etc., and have fun. The so called "casual" (or "lazy") players. These players would like to have Perfect Mods and different skins from Collectors and Crafters to play with. And why not? They feel since they bought the game, and have invested time playing it (if not the same amount of time as the second group), why shouldn't they enjoy the benefit of Inscriptions? (which, contrary to popular belief, they did not "petition" or "beg" Anet for).

The second group is hard-core farmers and traders. They have finished all aspects of the game, and the only thing left to do is farm and sell rare weapon skins for millions of gold. They feel that this update will rob them of their hard earned weapons and gold, (although, it could be argued, they really don't lose any weapons or gold, they just lose value of their weapons, most of which should be Customized anyway and have no trade value at all). So, really, they only lose percieved value for their items, and don't want the first group to get these items they worked so hard for "easily."

The third group has all the benefits of the second, but identifies with the first, and is for Inscriptions because, frankly, "why not?"

Does that sum it up fairly well? If not, what are people's real concerns?

Phoenix Ex · Oct 06, 2006, 04:55 AM // 04:55

To me (maybe not to other), the real concern is that there will be no goals left for non-casual players to work for(except for fow armor), which makes the rather short length of the game pretty obvious.

That said, hopefully Nightfall will be MUCH longer than factions and hopefully more expensive cosmetic options will be put into the game.

But as we all know...ANet has a habit of putting half ass changes...(material storage when alot of people have weapons, AoE update without skill readjust, and now, probably making all weapons cheap without adding more vanity for hardcores), so I won't get my hopes up that they will add more vanity.

Ghull Ka · Oct 06, 2006, 05:41 AM // 05:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

To me (maybe not to other), the real concern is that there will be no goals left for non-casual players to work for(except for fow armor), which makes the rather short length of the game pretty obvious.

If there's nothing for you to do to keep yourself entertained, then find - another - game. Enjoy Guild Wars or play something else.

I'm non-casual. I play at least 4 hours a day and more on weekends. I have for more than a year. I have plenty of goals to keep me busy, and am having a great time. My goals seem to be different than yours, though, because I'm having a great time playing Guild Wars without doing any "work" in order to obtain leet expensive vanity items. It's just not why I log in every day.

And I'm REALLY looking forward to inscriptions and selectable, non-destructive salvage. Can't happen soon enough!

So, I'm "hardcore" and I don't give a crap about selling high-dollar "vanity" items for profit, and I still have tons of fun goals to accomplish and things to do. I'm willing to wager that there are a LOT of players out there just like me. So maaaaaaaybe there's more to Guild Wars than a "rather short" game + uber item farming, eh?

Besides, there's no need to be concerned about "oh noes, there's not going to be anything for teh pros to do!" if inscriptions are implemented the way we think they will be -- teh pros can just go find other games to play, or find other things to do in Guild Wars. It's a horribly simple choice. Have fun playing Guild Wars or have fun playing something else, ffs.

ANet doesn't NEED you to log in every day, you know. You've bought your copies, had your fun, and both you and ANet have profited by this relationship. If the game isn't any fun anymore, stop torturing yourself by playing a game that you're just not enjoying and go buy Lego Star Wars 2 (i hear it's really good) or Dead Rising or something. Seriously, Guild Wars won't implode if you quit.

I hope that this can help put your real concern to rest.

Phoenix Ex · Oct 06, 2006, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Or why don't YOU go play another game like Warcraft where you don't have to worry about item being too expensive and perfect for casual. As far as I know I paid the same amount as you for the game and I have as much of a right to ask for stuff that caters to my own playing style as much as you. Whether ANET implements them is another story.

I like "uber farming" and having expensive items to buy and vanity options, and as long as I don't go pester people with outrageous price and show off, you have no right to make me stop.

And btw, STOP ASSUMING everything people say that isn't OMG THIS IS THE BEST to be an effort for anet to don't implement this. I am all for it, but I am asking for them to add stuff, and what's so wrong in that?

Talk about some selfish people only want the game to fit their own playing style.

Gli · Oct 06, 2006, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

We think of the rare skinned as rewards for actually playing the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

It will ruin one of the reasons to play any more pve after completing the storyline.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

And the effect on GAMEPLAY will be huge - with no reason to go to any high-end location more than once

You know, I get the feeling you're only playing for the loot, and for some reason assume that everyone does. ANet isn't catering to you. Never has, and probably never will be. Would you imagine, there are people who keep returning to PvE because they like to play the game for the sake of playing?

Phoenix Ex · Oct 06, 2006, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Actually from the start, they DID cater to the people who play for loot, just look at the constant adding of new skins like jade sword and golden maul.

What's so wrong with a bit of catering to different people other than "uber casual" anyways,Gli and Ghullka? It'll keep them interested, it'll draw in more players of different styles, ANet makes more profit, and

They'll have more budget to add stuff you casual players want.

P.S. Please for the love of god, don't assume I hate inscriptions with this post. I never said one word about them.

Gli · Oct 06, 2006, 06:20 AM // 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

Actually from the start, they DID cater to the people who play for loot, just look at the constant adding of new skins like jade sword and golden maul.

I'm thinking they're adding those to add variety, not for obsessing over.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

What's so wrong with a bit of catering to different people other than "uber casual" anyways,Gli and Ghullka? It'll keep them interested, it'll draw in more players of different styles, ANet makes more profit, and

They'll have more budget to add stuff you casual players want.

I'm not a casual player. I play every day, usually more than 3 hours. Get it out of your head that only casual players are in favor of this. Why do you keep assuming that everyone who doesn't obsess over loot is a casual player? There's much more to this game than rare loot to obsess over.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

P.S. Please for the love of god, don't assume I hate inscriptions with this post. I never said one word about them.

And let me be bluntly honest and state that one of the reasons I'd love for all assumptions about them to be true, is that they'll destroy the high-end market. Return the game to a sane economy where entry-level players can participate.

Ghull Ka · Oct 06, 2006, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

Or why don't YOU go play another game like Warcraft where you don't have to worry about item being too expensive and perfect for casual.

Because, as per my post, I'm enjoying playing Guild Wars. I thought that would have been evident.

Oh, and from what I understand, in Warcraft, your items ARE your character, and you can't be competitive unless you grind for uber gear. And the uber gear is very, very expensive. Obviously, that's not what Guild Wars is about, and that's why I like it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ex

Talk about some selfish people only want the game to fit their own playing style.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm seeing here. People around here are upset about inscriptions and selectable salvage because they want weapons with popular skins and good mods to cost outrageous prices. ANet will soon eliminate that from the game, I hope.

Avarre · Oct 06, 2006, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

And let me be bluntly honest and state that one of the reasons I'd love for all assumptions about them to be true, is that they'll destroy the high-end market. Return the game to a sane economy where entry-level players can participate.

You don't need to trade in stacks of ecto to participate in the economy. A few days of farming in the current system can set you up with enough funds to begin merchanting - or buy max golds for yourself.

The economy of Guild Wars is one of the sanest there is (*coughDiablo2cough*) compared to most others, because participation in it is purely optional due to collector/pvp items. People have equated 'no grind to participate!' with 'no grind to get everything', and that population, already catered to in Guild Wars more than almost any other online rpg, is getting even more things spoonfed to them.

Gli · Oct 06, 2006, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

You don't need to trade in stacks of ecto to participate in the economy. A few days of farming in the current system can set you up with enough funds to begin merchanting - or buy max golds for yourself.

Farming and merchanting? Why would anyone just starting to play want to do that? That's the realm of the jaded veteran. How about just playing, grabbing an easy few platinum every outing just by selling to merchants and traders, making enough money to afford competitive gear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

The economy of Guild Wars is one of the sanest there is (*coughDiablo2cough*) compared to most others, because participation in it is purely optional due to collector/pvp items. People have equated 'no grind to participate!' with 'no grind to get everything', and that population, already catered to in Guild Wars more than almost any other online rpg, is getting even more things spoonfed to them.

I haven't found any collector weapons with +30 health mods yet. Worse, if you were to put one onto a collector weapon, it's gone forever because you can't even try to salvage it later. PvP items have nothing to do with this at all. Sane because participation is optional? That makes no sense at all, that's like saying suicide cults are sane because participation is optional.